Jadaliyya Co-Editor, Mouin Rabbani, Addresses Israel's 'absolutely genocidal military campaign' in Gaza Strip On Democracy Now!

Jadaliyya Co-Editor, Mouin Rabbani, Addresses Israel's "absolutely genocidal military campaign" in Gaza Strip On Democracy Now!

By : Jadaliyya Reports

Jadaliyya Co-Editor, Mouin Rabbani, joined Democracy Now! today to cover the ongoing atrocities being committed in the Gaza Strip, describing Israel’s engineered military program and starvation policy as "absolutely genocidal". 

[Transcript provied by Democracy Now!... To view original posting and interview, please click here]

Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: We begin today’s who in Gaza. Palestinians are fleeing Khan Younis, the besieged territory’s second-largest city, after the Israeli military issued expulsion orders. This comes as Israel’s bombardment of Gaza intensifies, killing hundreds of Palestinians over the weekend, including at least five journalists. Health facilities have been under constant attack.

On Sunday, Israel announced “Operation Gideon’s Chariots,” what it called a new “extensive ground operation” in Gaza. The prominent Israeli columnist Gideon Levy said a more apt name for the offensive would be, quote, “Chariots of Genocide,” unquote.

The prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, said Sunday Israel would allow limited food supplies into Gaza as the population of more than 2 million faces famine after 11 weeks of a total Israeli blockade. But it’s not clear exactly when that food will cross the border.

U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres once again decried the catastrophic situation in Gaza and the utter failure of the international community to stop Israel.

SECRETARY-GENERAL ANTÓNIO GUTERRES: In Gaza, the situation of Palestinians is beyond description, beyond atrocious and beyond inhumane. The policy of siege and starvation makes a mockery of international law.

AMY GOODMAN: NBC News reports the Trump administration is working on a plan to permanently remove 1 million Palestinians from Gaza and transfer them to Libya. On Friday, U.N. human rights chief Volker Türk said Israel’s actions in Gaza are, quote, “tantamount to ethnic cleansing.”

Gaza’s Health Ministry confirms Israel has killed at least 53,300 Palestinians in Gaza since October 2023. The death toll does not account for thousands of people believed dead, including those trapped under the rubble, nor those killed by the indirect effects of Israel’s assault on Gaza. In fact, the number could be more than two times, three times higher.

For more, we’re joined in Montreal by Mouin Rabbani, Middle East analyst, co-editor of Jadaliyya and a nonresident fellow at the Center for Conflict and Humanitarian Studies. He’s a contributor to the book Deluge: Gaza and Israel from Crisis to Cataclysm.

Welcome back to Democracy Now!, Mouin. Thanks so much for being with us.

MOUIN RABBANI: It’s good to be with you.

AMY GOODMAN: If you can respond to the situation right now, the escalation of the attacks on Gaza?

MOUIN RABBANI: Well, the situation, as anyone who’s following the news can see, is thoroughly apocalyptic. There is not only an unprecedented siege, but also an unprecedented intensification of Israel’s genocidal military campaign in the Gaza Strip. And judging by the statements of Israel’s most senior leaders, it aims towards the complete occupation of the Gaza Strip and the destruction of everything that remains standing in the Gaza Strip, and ultimately the mass, full forcible expulsion of its entire population.

And the past few days have been particularly cataclysmic, at the same time negotiations about a potential new agreement are ongoing. And this will be decided neither by Israel nor by the Palestinians, but by the United States. To the extent that Israel continues with this assault, it means that it has a U.S. green light for doing so. To the extent that the situation changes, that means that Israel has been instructed by Washington to change course.

AMY GOODMAN: Talk about Israel partially lifting the blockade. What exactly does this mean, after 11 months of a full blockade on medicine and aid — 11 weeks?

MOUIN RABBANI: At this stage, it doesn’t appear to mean very much. According to reports available this morning, Israel is preparing to permit something on the order of 50 trucks to enter the Gaza Strip. And we’re talking about a population of between 1.5 and 2 million people who have been deprived of any goods entering from outside the territory since the very beginning of March. So, this is clearly a drop in the bucket.

I think the more important question is whether this is the beginning of a lifting of the siege under U.S. and international pressure, and, just as importantly, whether Israel and the U.S. are going to move ahead with this harebrained scheme, that has already been denounced by the international aid community, of setting up a aid mechanism whose purpose is to force the relocation of the Gaza Strip population to specified locations where they can access limited humanitarian supplies under the watchful eye of U.S. mercenaries acting on behalf of the Israeli military and government.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the U.S. plan that’s been reported to move Palestinians to Libya?

MOUIN RABBANI: Yes, and it’s interesting that this report has now been formally denied by the U.S. Embassy in Libya, I think as a precautionary measure, given what happened to that embassy about a decade ago. But we do know that President Trump has repeatedly proposed an initiative whereby the entire Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip would be forcibly relocated outside the Gaza Strip. It would be taken over and rebuilt, presumably by U.S. real estate developers acting in coordination with Israel. And there have been persistent reports that the U.S. and Israel have been approaching a variety of countries, both within the region and beyond, to accept these forcibly displaced Palestinians.

And in respect of Libya, the reports are that the U.S. has offered Libya to unfreeze billions of dollars in Libyan funds that have been frozen in international financial institutions since the reign of Muammar Gaddafi, who was overthrown and killed over a decade ago, if and only if Libya accepts 1 million Palestinians on its territory. This would increase the Libyan population by over 10%. And it’s effectively bribing Libya with its own money to participate in this war crime and crime against humanity. But it seems to me exceptionally unlikely that Libya will even seriously consider this proposal for one moment, given the impact it would have on Libya’s domestic politics, which is very strongly pro-Palestinian. And I think the real issue here is not the extent to which this initiative can actually be implemented, but rather the legitimization it gives to Israel’s determination, repeatedly expressed, to expel the Palestinian population of the Gaza Strip, and, further down the line, from the West Bank, as well.

AMY GOODMAN: On Friday, President Trump actually said, quote, “A lot of people are starving” in Gaza under the Israeli blockade. He said the U.S. wanted to help reduce the suffering. What can the U.S. do? What can the world do? You have up to 100,000 people in the Netherlands protesting outside The Hague. You have a number of Italian Parliament members going to the Egyptian side of the Rafah border demanding that the world stop arming Israel. Can you talk about what the solutions are at this point?

MOUIN RABBANI: Well, you had, as you mentioned, the 100,000, approximately, protesters in the Netherlands, with reports of something in the range of half a million in London the day before. And there is growing opposition and disgust with Israel’s engineered starvation policy and absolutely genocidal military campaign in the Gaza Strip. And a number of European governments are now beginning to speak more loudly, as well, calling, for example, for reconsideration of Israel’s preferential trade privileges with the European Union.

But at this stage, the decision really will be made not in London or Brussels or Berlin, but in Washington, because of the extraordinary leverage that the United States exercises over Israel. And it will take no more than a phone call from Washington to the Israeli government to effect a complete reversal in Israeli policy within the space of a day. That’s really the only reason we’re now seeing this limited — very limited — resumption of aid.

And with respect to the statements by President Trump, I think we also need to bear in mind we’re dealing here with a quite erratic leader who can contradict himself in the space of a day or even an hour. So, what we really need to focus is not so much on what he says, but what the United States does. There are ongoing negotiations for a new agreement. And it’s difficult to tell exactly what’s happening there. Of course, they’re being held behind closed doors. But we still need to find out the extent to which Washington is exercising genuine pressure, if any, on Israel to force it to accept an agreement that will lift the siege, lead to an exchange of captives, and ultimately put an end to this genocidal war.

AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask you, finally — Drop Site News is reporting a senior Hamas official received assurances from President Trump’s special envoy, Steve Witkoff, the U.S. would force Israel to lift the Gaza blockade within two days after releasing the U.S.-Israeli citizen Edan Alexander. Basem Naim, a member of Hamas’s political bureau, said the Trump administration reneged on its promise, saying, “They didn’t violate the deal. They threw it in the trash.” Your response to the report? And do you think that’s why they lifted — Israel lifted it partially?

MOUIN RABBANI: Well, these reports may well form part of the background of today’s developments that we’ve been discussing. But at the time, it was — you know, Hamas said it was releasing this Israeli soldier, who’s also a U.S. citizen, as a goodwill gesture on the eve of Trump’s visit to the Middle East, and the Americans also said they had offered nothing in exchange. So, quite clearly, there were no formal undertakings by the United States, but I think it’s entirely reasonable to suppose that there were informal assurances given. And those, once again, ended up not being worth the paper they were or, in this case, were not written on. But at the same time, they could form part of the background of the developments that we’re seeing now, which is that negotiations seem to have been intensified. I think it’s very premature to conclude that they will succeed or result in a meaningful agreement, but there’s quite clearly more going on behind the scenes than we are directly aware of.

AMY GOODMAN: Mouin Rabbani, I want to thank you for being with us, Middle East analyst, co-editor of Jadaliyya and a nonresident fellow at the Center for Conflict and Humanitarian Studies, a contributor — 

MOUIN RABBANI: Thank you for having me.

AMY GOODMAN: — to the book Deluge, speaking to us from Montreal, Canada.

When we come back, “The Group Behind Project 2025 Has a Plan to Crush the Pro-Palestinian Movement.” We’ll speak with New York Times investigative reporter Katie J.M. Baker about the Heritage Foundation’s Project Esther. Stay with us.

[break]

AMY GOODMAN: Emel Mathlouthi, the Tunisian singer, performing last night at the People’s Graduation for Columbia Students in honor of the Palestinian activist Mahmoud Khalil, who was supposed to graduate from Columbia’s SIPA school, the School of International and Public Affairs. Instead, he’s imprisoned in an immigration jail in Louisiana.

The original content of this program is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0 United States License. Please attribute legal copies of this work to democracynow.org. Some of the work(s) that this program incorporates, however, may be separately licensed. For further information or additional permissions, contact us.

 

Featuring

Mouin Rabbani

  • ALSO BY THIS AUTHOR

    • Long Form Podcast Episode 8: Resigning the State Department Over Gaza With Hala Rharrit

      Long Form Podcast Episode 8: Resigning the State Department Over Gaza With Hala Rharrit

      In this episode of Long Form, Hala Rharrit discusses the factors that led her to resign from the US State Department, the mechanisms by which institutional corruption and ideological commitments of officials and representatives ensure US support for Israel, and how US decision-makers consistently violate international law and US laws/legislation. Rharrit also addresses the Trump administration’s claim that South Africa is perpetrating genocide against the country’s Afrikaaner population, and how this intersects with the US-Israeli campaign of retribution against South Africa for hauling Israel before the ICJ on charges of genocide.

    • Emergency Teach-In — Israel’s Profound Existential Crisis: No Morals or Laws Left to Violate!

      Emergency Teach-In — Israel’s Profound Existential Crisis: No Morals or Laws Left to Violate!

      The entire globe stands behind Israel as it faces its most intractable existential crisis since it started its slow-motion Genocide in 1948. People of conscience the world over are in tears as Israel has completely run out of morals and laws to violate during its current faster-paced Genocide in Gaza. Israelis, state and society, feel helpless, like sitting ducks, as they search and scramble for an inkling of hope that they might find one more human value to desecrate, but, alas, their efforts remain futile. They have covered their grounds impeccably and now have to face the music. This is an emergency call for immediate global solidarity with Israel’s quest far a lot more annihilation. Please lend a helping limb.

    • Long Form Podcast Episode 7: Think Tanks and Manufactuing Consent with Mandy Turner (4 June)

      Long Form Podcast Episode 7: Think Tanks and Manufactuing Consent with Mandy Turner (4 June)

      In this episode, Mandy Turner discusses the vital role think tanks play in the policy process, and in manufacturing consent for government policy. Turner recently published a landmark study of leading Western think tanks and their positions on Israel and Palestine, tracing pronounced pro-Israel bias, where the the key role is primarily the work of senior staff within these institutions, the so-called “gatekeepers.”

Past is Present: Settler Colonialism Matters!

On 5-6 March 2011, the Palestine Society at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) in London will hold its seventh annual conference, "Past is Present: Settler Colonialism in Palestine." This year`s conference aims to understand Zionism as a settler colonial project which has, for more than a century, subjected Palestine and Palestinians to a structural and violent form of destruction, dispossession, land appropriation and erasure in the pursuit of a new Jewish Israeli society. By organizing this conference, we hope to reclaim and revive the settler colonial paradigm and to outline its potential to inform and guide political strategy and mobilization.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is often described as unique and exceptional with little resemblance to other historical or ongoing colonial conflicts. Yet, for Zionism, like other settler colonial projects such as the British colonization of Ireland or European settlement of North America, South Africa or Australia, the imperative is to control the land and its resources -- and to displace the original inhabitants. Indeed, as conference keynote speaker Patrick Wolfe, one of the foremost scholars on settler colonialism and professor at La Trobe University in Victoria, Australia, argues, "the logic of this project, a sustained institutional tendency to eliminate the Indigenous population, informs a range of historical practices that might otherwise appear distinct--invasion is a structure not an event."[i]

Therefore, the classification of the Zionist movement as a settler colonial project, and the Israeli state as its manifestation, is not merely intended as a statement on the historical origins of Israel, nor as a rhetorical or polemical device. Rather, the aim is to highlight Zionism`s structural continuities and the ideology which informs Israeli policies and practices in Palestine and toward Palestinians everywhere. Thus, the Nakba -- whether viewed as a spontaneous, violent episode in war, or the implementation of a preconceived master plan -- should be understood as both the precondition for the creation of Israel and the logical outcome of Zionist settlement in Palestine.

Moreover, it is this same logic that sustains the continuation of the Nakba today. As remarked by Benny Morris, “had he [David Ben Gurion] carried out full expulsion--rather than partial--he would have stabilised the State of Israel for generations.”[ii] Yet, plagued by an “instability”--defined by the very existence of the Palestinian nation--Israel continues its daily state practices in its quest to fulfill Zionism’s logic to maximize the amount of land under its control with the minimum number of Palestinians on it. These practices take a painful array of manifestations: aerial and maritime bombardment, massacre and invasion, house demolitions, land theft, identity card confiscation, racist laws and loyalty tests, the wall, the siege on Gaza, cultural appropriation, and the dependence on willing (or unwilling) native collaboration and security arrangements, all with the continued support and backing of imperial power. 

Despite these enduring practices however, the settler colonial paradigm has largely fallen into disuse. As a paradigm, it once served as a primary ideological and political framework for all Palestinian political factions and trends, and informed the intellectual work of committed academics and revolutionary scholars, both Palestinians and Jews.

The conference thus asks where and why the settler colonial paradigm was lost, both in scholarship on Palestine and in politics; how do current analyses and theoretical trends that have arisen in its place address present and historical realities? While acknowledging the creativity of these new interpretations, we must nonetheless ask: when exactly did Palestinian natives find themselves in a "post-colonial" condition? When did the ongoing struggle over land become a "post-conflict" situation? When did Israel become a "post-Zionist" society? And when did the fortification of Palestinian ghettos and reservations become "state-building"?

In outlining settler colonialism as a central paradigm from which to understand Palestine, this conference re-invigorates it as a tool by which to analyze the present situation. In doing so, it contests solutions which accommodate Zionism, and more significantly, builds settler colonialism as a political analysis that can embolden and inform a strategy of active, mutual, and principled Palestinian alignment with the Arab struggle for self-determination, and indigenous struggles in the US, Latin America, Oceania, and elsewhere.

Such an alignment would expand the tools available to Palestinians and their solidarity movement, and reconnect the struggle to its own history of anti-colonial internationalism. At its core, this internationalism asserts that the Palestinian struggle against Zionist settler colonialism can only be won when it is embedded within, and empowered by, the broader Arab movement for emancipation and the indigenous, anti-racist and anti-colonial movement--from Arizona to Auckland.

SOAS Palestine Society invites everyone to join us at what promises to be a significant intervention in Palestine activism and scholarship.

For over 30 years, SOAS Palestine Society has heightened awareness and understanding of the Palestinian people, their rights, culture, and struggle for self-determination, amongst students, faculty, staff, and the broader public. SOAS Palestine society aims to continuously push the frontiers of discourse in an effort to make provocative arguments and to stimulate debate and organizing for justice in Palestine through relevant conferences, and events ranging from the intellectual and political impact of Edward Said`s life and work (2004), international law and the Palestine question (2005), the economy of Palestine and its occupation (2006), the one state (2007), 60 Years of Nakba, 60 Years of Resistance (2009), and most recently, the Left in Palestine (2010).

For more information on the SOAS Palestine Society 7th annual conference, Past is Present: Settler Colonialism in Palestine: www.soaspalsoc.org

SOAS Palestine Society Organizing Collective is a group of committed students that has undertaken to organize annual academic conferences on Palestine since 2003.

 


[i] Patrick Wolfe, Settler Colonialism and the Transformation of Anthropology: The Politics and Poetics of an Ethnographic Event, Cassell, London, p. 163

[ii] Interview with Benny Morris, Survival of the Fittest, Haaretz, 9. January 2004, http://cosmos.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/php/art.php?aid=5412